118. From Corporate to Real Estate Success with Elaina Biffle

Connect with the host:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandon-e-jenkins/
Website: https://www.birchprosper.com/
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About the guest:
Elaina Biffle is an entrepreneur and real estate investor who transitioned from over 15 years in corporate talent development to building wealth through real estate. After investing in multifamily properties in Columbus, OH, and Detroit, MI, she quickly expanded her portfolio to 165 units, including two multifamily complexes she owns and manages. To enhance operational efficiency, Elaina founded her own property management company, offering comprehensive in-house services. With a focus on creating communal equity and accessible housing, Elaina is dedicated to scaling her business while making a social impact. She's passionate about helping others achieve financial freedom through smart real estate investments.

Connect with Elaina:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ebiffle/

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

We're finding that out with AI. You know, jobs that you thought were secure really aren't as secure as you you thought they were. And the best thing that you can do is create a way for yourself.

SPEAKER_02 0:15

How successful would you be if you had the blueprint for building wealth as a real estate investor or as someone who acquires small businesses? If you want to move the needle financially in your life, then you need to understand one thing the capital stack. I'm your host, Brandon Jenkins, and this is where your journey to financial freedom begins. Hello everyone, what's up, and welcome back to the Capital Stack. So I'm super excited to share this information with you today and introduce our speaker. You know, one of the things that I talk about a lot on this show, um, in on the show and off, um, is about the power of transferable skills. You know, one thing that um, you know, for people who, if you have a full-time job or if you have some a professional skill set and you're looking to kind of shift and get into the real estate space, you know, there's often this thought that we have to acquire some new skill in order to thrive, in order to do well. And that's not the case. Usually, uh, you know, the thing that you've been doing for years and years and years has elements of it that will translate or transfer directly into um success as a real estate investor. And so our guest for today has done just that. Elena, how are you doing today?

SPEAKER_00 1:21

I am doing great, Brandon. How are you?

SPEAKER_02 1:24

I'm doing well. Thanks for being on the show. Elena is a co-founder of Keys Investments. She's an entrepreneur and a real estate investor with over 165 units and assets under management. And that number has gone up. So we'll talk about that recent transaction as well. She's got over 15 years in the corporate talent development industry. Okay. And again, just like I said, you know, having that deep uh background in the corporate space in particular, but just in the professional realm, really bows well as a real estate investor. So a couple of years ago, she started her investing career with just a few passive investments. She has since grown that into a sizable portfolio and she's launched her own uh property management company. So we'll talk about that um and much more. But again, Elena, thank you so much for being here. And why don't you share kind of a little bit about your background, about your journey with us?

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Yeah, Raina. So thank you again so much for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity to be able to just share my journey. Um, it starts in Detroit, Michigan, uh, home of the Lions. Um, really not knowing much about um real estate. You know, we grew up Section 8, didn't really own um any real estate, went to college and thought, you know, you get a job, you work hard, and you work your way up the corporate ladder. And that's exactly what I did. I was always a great student and worked my way, you know, up that, up that corporate ladder, NHR, really had a passion for learning, um especially training development in the leadership space, um, and did that for a while with the goal to be in the C-suite as much as most of us do. Um, around three or four years ago, started to feel that corporate burnout as most of us do. Um, we went through a a riff at one of my previous companies, which is a reduction in force, um, where I had to lay off several people. And I gotta say, it was one of the hardest things um I've had to do as an HR professional. And I thought there's gotta, you know, there's gotta be a better way. Um, I ran into my now co-founder business partner at a friend's going away party. Um, we started having a conversation. And at that time, I didn't own any real estate. You know, my my story was, um, I'm gonna wait till I get married. We'll we'll probably dive into that. But the story was, you know, I'll I'll wait till I get married. And he said, What are you doing? Like you're you're smart, you have the skills, you know, you know how to invest. Let's get you some property. So that's what we did. And we went searching for my personal uh property. And again, being in corporate, I pre-qualified for this huge loan amount. And I'm like, wait a minute, why do you all want to give me almost almost a million dollars like to buy one house? Right. And I I couldn't believe it. And I found uh I found a nice little condo um that I liked. And I thought, okay, but it was a you know$200,000 condo. And I'm like, well, I just like the location and um went to the HOA meeting and he nudged me and said, Hey, why don't you ask if anyone else is selling, you know, selling anymore since you've got some, you know, you've got some runway. Um, and I did, and that's how I acquired my first six-unit um complex, was essentially looking for my condo and just ended up buying a building. So um it kind of was a whirlwind of uh transaction, but um that was kind of my my foray into um into doing that, but still having a love for talent and development, but um that was it. I was I was hooked after that. I was I was hooked.

SPEAKER_02 4:53

I bet yeah, no, that that's that's incredible. I mean, there's some stuff to kind of um unpack in that. And I think um well, one thing that's kind of interesting too is you know, we always hear about the uh side of kind of the employees uh that go when they go through something like that. But it is interesting to hear kind of your perspective and how you mentioned that it's one of the hardest uh things that you've had to do, um, you know, and how that actually is kind of what maybe uh awakened kind of the spirit of uh, you know, entrepreneurship and things and looking elsewhere um within you. But that's that's interesting. I mean, you know, because we don't really hear about that side, right? But that's not easy for you either. You know, they're the employees going through it, but you're having to deliver the news. Um, and in some cases, I'm I'm imagining it might have been someone who you you know might have known or or been close to. It's not an easy thing to do in general.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Not at all. And it's it's one of those things, especially in HR. You know, HR is the big bad guy in a lot of in a lot of organizations, but there's a lot of um psychological toll that that can take on the person delivering that message, whether it's the manager or um the director, even. I I like to think no one likes to let people go, um, especially when it's a cause beyond their control, like a business or a law changes or something like that happens. And so there's a level of support that needs to happen, even for those um managers, because uh a lot of managers can't mirror that. And so you end up internalizing um some of that. And you can go through, you know, training and courses and things on it, but nothing prepares you, you know, to let someone go who has a baby on the way or anything like that. So it's just a different perspective. Um, but it does, it does and can um take a toll on both sides.

SPEAKER_02 6:31

Yeah, yeah, I can imagine. I mean, and the good thing, you know, and you were able to turn that then into finding a solution for yourself. And I'm kind of curious, okay. So, so you uh you're going and you're looking for a condo and you're not getting six. Um, and so so let's let's kind of walk us through that that process. So, you know, how did you kind of bridge the gap from saying, okay, yeah, I'm gonna buy because you were looking for a primary residence uh initially, right? And ended up buying uh six, which is incredible, but then there's this this uh huge, you know, uh uh this new world now that opens up to you of having to screen people, having you know, having to do all this. So how did you kind of come about, you know, with the way to to to frame some of those things that you needed to do?

SPEAKER_00 7:14

Yeah, well, um it's not easy, I would say that. And one of the things that uh I had to do was hire a property management, um which I didn't know how to do right at the time. Um, and I would say kind of as a backtrack, in the in the middle of this, I was in the process of getting education.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

And so what that education meant for me was going out to different events, you know, watching webinars, really just trying to get educated and educate myself on the process. Um, and in that it was the first thing everyone said was, who not how. Don't try to do everything yourself. Go find an expert in this area. Um, and so that's exactly what happened. It was who can manage this, you know, property for me. Again, at the time, um, my business partner um was already a real estate agent, was already on his way to starting the brokerage. And um, so I had some experience, but I had to bring in someone else because I didn't know that. And again, at that time, I was a VP in HR. So I had a whole career um going at the same time where I was learning how, you know, the difference between a primary home loan and now what's a commercial loan. Um, I'm learning all of these things at the same time. So it was definitely a a who-not how um type of experience and leaning on people with expertise in this area um that were not named Elena.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

Yeah, but you know something that's interesting though. So, so your your core competency, your core skill set has a very nice overlap, though, if you think about it with the who not how concept, right? Because what you were doing on a regular basis was determining, hey, who's the right fit for this? You know, you have you you the company has a vision and a mission, or the team, you know, has kind of a direction and a and a vision that they're um applying to their work. And it's like, okay, who can fit in this space to best help the company, the team, go in this direction? Um, but so but for the listeners though, who maybe not not be as familiar with who, not how, can you explain a little bit more of that incredible concept uh, you know, with us or to us?

SPEAKER_00 9:24

Yes, I wish it was mine. Um it is based on a great book called Um Who, Not How. Like that is the title. And it really talks about um the power of delegation and the power of finding experts in certain areas to leverage your time. Um, a good example I like to use now is house cleaning. Um, if I pay a house cleaner to come to my house and I pay them, I don't know, let's say$100 to clean my house, and it would have taken me three hours to do that. That's I don't know,$33 an hour. Is my time worth$33 an hour or could I use my time doing something else that would produce more value? So it really talks about concepts um like that that we don't think about um kind of outsourcing um some of the things that you are not the expert at and leveraging other people so you can do what you do best. And um again, it's a it's a great book. Um, highly, highly recommend. I'm an audible and a like actual book person. Um so highly recommend kind of highlighting it up. But um that is the basis, the basis of the book is figuring out ways to delegate and figuring out ways to leverage the expertise of others.

SPEAKER_02 10:37

Yeah, yeah. And it just allows you to compress the learning curve, compress the time curve significantly. A lot of times, you know, a lot of times the results that you get from applying that principle gets you a lot farther than you would have been able to get alone. I think that's um Dan Sullivan, I believe, is is the author, at least one of the authors. But um, but it's it's such an amazing concept. It's something that I, you know, I don't mind admitting I have struggled with, or at least in the past I did for for sure. And it's and I as I read through the book, one of the things that for me stood out is okay, well, maybe I wasn't making the vision clear enough to the to the people who I wanted to kind of hey, maybe help me out with something, right? It's like here's here's this vision, here's you know why um it's important, and here's how it can, you know, mean something to both of us, and here's kind of what I'm looking for. But um yeah, I just think it's an empowerful, uh really powerful concept, and it's empowering for all parties involved or both parties. Um so uh one thing that for me is that is kind of behind some of that though is a mindset shift, I think, right? Like that's that's something that um it's clear that you you had, right? You had a sort of an event. It happens to all of to not all of us, but to many of us, um, where there's some trigger that says, okay, well, I need to look at this differently, you know. And so I know that for you, it was kind of this pivotal moment uh where you developed this like this new vision around generating wealth, right? And around um using real estate to do that. Uh, can you can you maybe share some things that that for you, you know, was a crucial mind shift, but mindset shift between where you thought before and where you where you are now?

SPEAKER_00 12:14

Yeah, the biggest one of the biggest shifts for me came, and again, and not to reference other books, but from the emyth, revisit it. And it really talks about like with no clear vision of where you're going, how are you going to get there? Um, and it was taking a step back and saying, I'm saying I want to be this philanthropist who's able to give. I want to be known for giving. Um, and how can I create that life to leave this legacy? And the only way I know how to do it is by going out and mapping out a plan for what that looks like with intention. And so for me, it was the shift of these things are reachable, like they are within reach if you plan and you strategize. And again, planning, strategizing, operationalizing, those are my favorite things to do. Um, so really sitting back, making a plan to execute, and not to go back to HR, but being in HR will teach you everyone's dispensable. You, I mean, everyone is we're finding that out with AI, you know, jobs that you thought were secure really aren't as secure as you you thought they were. And the best thing that you can do is create a way for yourself, which is the complete opposite of, you know, what I was always taught. Again, being a Detroiter and having family growing up working in the plants, it was you go get a good job, you know, work 40 years and retire. Um, and here I am saying, I'm gonna walk away from a six-figure career to, you know, be a landlord. I mean, it just doesn't make logical sense for a lot of people, but I understand the end goal, right? And the end goal for me is to be able to give at the scale that I want to give. Um, I have to have more and surround myself with people who have more.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

Yeah, I love that that vision, right? Your end goals to be a giver. And and something that, you know, in order to be a giver in a in a uh larger sense, you have to have more, right? To be able to give more. Um, and so, you know, I remember I went to some years ago, I went to a a conference where one of the speakers said, you know, for people who say money does doesn't mean anything, um, he his challenge or his response or counter, I guess, was, you know, for anyone who's saying that, they probably aren't giving enough, you know, because if you if you're giving, then you know it means something and it is important. Um, but I love that. I love that the that your your goal is, hey, I want to be a giver, and these are the things I need to put in place to help, you know, open this path up for myself, but also to be able to now allow myself to um to be a bigger giver. So uh one thing I wanted to talk to you about as well is scaling your portfolio. You know, this is for me, this is something that more people who um are in this space and who are considering getting into this space need to be aware of that it is the scalability factor of real estate, especially um in the commercial space, is enormous, you know. And and I think that once once we grasp that concept, that's what really allows us to break free from, like you mentioned, like some of the conventional wisdom that we all received, that as it turns out, is riskier than you know, than going out and charting a course. Um but you were able to scale your portfolio in a in the in the grand scheme of things as a relatively short amount of time. But um, and I I'd wager that given your professional experience, you probably were very structured and ordered in doing so. So, but but how were you able to scale your portfolio in a couple of um couple years?

SPEAKER_00 15:56

Yeah, I I trace all of this back to Ambergas Key in Belize. So I was in Belize uh looking for coffee and walked into um a resort in Belize and was sitting at a coffee shop and I was like, wow, this place is nice. Um, you know, how did they do it? And the gentleman I was talking to, which I don't mind mentioning, is David Kapta. He's he's down there. Hi, David, if you're listening, um he introduced my partner and I to the concept of syndication. I never heard the word, you know, I'm new to real estate. I just bought my first house. Um, I never even heard of syndication. And he explained and walked through the process. And he said, you know, I can only talk to you so much about this, like here, because you know, we're in beachware and I'm looking for vacation property. And he said, I really, you know, come to this event and learn about syndication. And that's exactly what we did. I mean, he was probably surprised to see us show up and um we went and we started to learn about the process of syndication and what that meant and um the difference between being accredited and not accredited, and really started getting educated on how to scale, right? And how to do it the right way. And so I, you know, every time I see him at an event or anything, I always thank him because he is the reason um I was able to do that. I didn't know as an individual I could invest my IRA into a 200-unit apartment complex. Like I never knew these things because in Detroit, Michigan, these are not things that we were talking about at the time. So um to just be able to be exposed to this world of people who were taking their hard arm money and scaling it in so many different ways in real estate was was just groundbreaking and I and eye-opening for me. So it was it was a no-brainer uh for me to get in a room and surround myself with smart people um who knew what they were doing and to be able to deploy um, you know, my assets and learn at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Absolutely. Earn while you learn, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:11

Earn while you learn.

SPEAKER_02 18:12

Look, I'm I, you know, for for the for the listeners, I mean, I have to say, you know, you're saying you're the things that you're taught that you're talking about here are just so important and vital to growth, right? You talk because you mentioned it a couple of times, I believe, is getting in the right room where people know what they're what they're talking about and where they can kind of help you, like this concept of collective intelligence and this concept of growth by leveraging the experience and knowledge of others. Um also the the kind the exposure you mentioned, which I think it's a is that word is is so powerful because you you you you never know. The same with me. Like it's not I I when I first heard about the syndication world, I didn't know anything about it at all. And once I once I was uh uh made aware of it, it just opened up this world that now it's just like, oh my goodness, you know, I wish I knew about it, you know, years ago. Um, but to to think that your you know your success and your path, you know, it I I love that story. It comes down to a cup of coffee, you know, where you had a conversation with someone in Belize opened your your mind up to something that now you're um having success in. And I just think that's um incredible. And it's um and so let's talk a bit now about kind of the types of properties, right? Like some of your criteria, the types of things that you look for. Can you maybe shed some light on that? Like what are the types of properties you look for?

SPEAKER_00 19:30

Um Yeah, there are two things that as invest, like as an investor, I look for. Um, the first is a strong operator. So if there's a project um where the operator has some experience, is building a team, um, you know, they've done it before, they've made some mistakes, and it's something I can partner with them on. I try to do that. Like I love to JV, I love to partner, I love to get on Teams because to me, that is the quickest way to scale your portfolio again, is to not go it alone and to really partner with other people. Um, so that's what I've been able to do. One, um, and the second one is uh location, location, location. Like I look for locations that are appreciating as the person on our team who has that kind of operational mindset. I'm looking at what is coming in the next three to seven years that is gonna cause this place to grow. Um, Columbus, Ohio is a great example. It just so happens to be my backyard, but Intel has made a big$2 billion investment right down the street, you know, right down the street from us. So I see the collective businesses that are coming into the market and I'm saying, okay, how can we get ahead of this curve? Where is the next best place to do that at? So I'm looking at location. Um, I'm really looking at how stable the rental market is. Again, now we have vertically integrated, but before that, um, you know, I I love blue collar rentals. Um people who may not necessarily be on the path to buy in the next one or two years, but might be on the path to buy in seven to ten years, but they work hard, they pay their rents, you know, they have a stable, you know, family, uh, those are the perfect tenants um for me. So I'm looking at the tenant pool as well and looking at how you know how much tenant turnover do you have? I'm looking at all of those things when I'm doing my analysis um on the back end in those spreadsheets because I live in spreadsheets. So those are the big, those are the big things I look for.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

Yeah, thank thanks for sharing that. And you're right, the the tenant pool is such an incredible factor. I mean, an incredibly important um factor to look at, you know, is what type of tenant are you gonna get here to make sure that you're kind of selecting the right product. know some people will try and force a product on the tenant that they're not really looking for and end up in a bind. So it's really it's really good that you're matching those two. And your the deals that you are investing in and that you're looking for, they're all in that area, kind of the the Rust Belt um area there or not or or yeah I love the I love the Midwest.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

I love the Midwest. My first like syndication investment, I invested in a project in Dallas, Texas, which at the time was booming with apartment, they're just building apartments left and right um in Dallas. And it was a great opportunity. And my brother lives down there too. So you know I like to drive past the asset every now and then but um that's where I got started. But no the Midwest is great for me. Columbus, Detroit, St. Louis, um Indiana places where again there's a strong rental pools and there is some type of corporate investment in the in the area.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

No good. Yeah those are all solid solid markets and um you know like I'm so I'm here in DC um and it's one that DC is an area where there's some the kind of wider fluctuations, right? Makes it a little bit difficult sometimes depending on where you are to map out. But I find that in in markets where you have a more stable kind of predictable tenant pool, it's much easier to the the numbers kind of a little bit make they make a little more sense as well, I think because you can pretty well say okay well here's where we are you know here's where we're likely to be going because we have all this this data that um that says as much, right? Not as much not as many wide swings in value and these sorts of things. So um so so you mentioned vertical vertical you know being vertically integrated. What does that mean for the listeners so they can understand that term?

SPEAKER_00 23:47

Yes so that means we've brought our property management branch in-house. I mentioned at the beginning when I you know had no idea what I was doing it was like oh you need to go hire a property manager. But over time, right, that's a skill set that um not only were we able to learn but we were able to bring in expertise and now that's something that we can do in-house. Again the benefit of being an HR is understanding how to recruit place talent and train um we were able to now bring that in-house and now we're even managing property for other investors who are investing in Ohio who don't live here. So we're able to start to scale that a little bit and really use our use our pain to help other investors who are coming here to learn from our to learn from our mistakes. So yes that's all it means is we're just bringing things in-house that normally we would have outsourced.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

Yeah I was and so it's interesting you mentioned uh pain because I was going to ask a a question about that is it I I find that there are there are usually one of two drivers uh behind someone going vertically integrated it's either they kind of have like that uh that specific knowledge to kind of says okay I can do it better or or I can um it decrease costs these sorts of things or it comes out of a bad story kind of a bad experience and I'm kind of curious what was the driver uh for in your case yeah it was cost so um we we did not have uh a bad experience no real like horror stories okay but it was really um here in Ohio we're very invested in our community um that's one of the things that we you know our claim to fame here especially when we're working with other investors in terms of property management is we're very tied into the community we go to the community meetings we volunteer on committees here um we know the planning and zoning processes so we're we're really involved um in our community because it's where we live work play so no it was just hey we can save we can save quite a bit if we bring this in-house and we have the ability to set up the business you know processes and operations to be able to sustain this um and it can go from being a cost center to being a cost driver which is really what we wanted. Good good and and of course the other piece is um you have the the the kind of the training and the skills to be able to kind of say okay this is the person that's a good fit um and here's where we can place them right so you you already had like some of the underlying skills that's necessary I mean and even on the other side of it like in working with um clients or tenants or what have you you know having the the ability to interface properly with them to come up with the best solution you know I think I think all things said are uh very important. And um so we mentioned uh well I I forgot whether it's when we started recording or or before but you had a recent acquisition kind of wanted to hear um some details about that if you can if you can share some information with us.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

I can share some information so one of the uh one of the things we always look for here you know in the central ohio slash Columbus area is opportunity uh we recently started uh shared housing um because the the rent here is pretty out of control I would say in terms for ohio right um relative to to where we are and so we ventured into starting to do shared housing with some of our larger units um after seeing that be successful and again we have a shared housing manager right that's all he does is is work on shared housing um we started looking for other opportunities to expand so the um acquisition that we are wrapping up right now um is actually going to be a quadplex with a fiveplex with it um and it will all be shared housing um we are going to do um we're gonna do a mix of working with the city and working with a few local employers here to to house um in that area with a few community partnerships we have um so that'll be 11 units in total um that we'll be bringing online we'll go in and we'll do um a full uh full rehab to the market right so we're not it it was just one of those class D house and a class B neighborhoods that um we we normally like to get the ugliest one on the on the street um and fix it up to be livable, um not fix it up to be$2,000 a month, but fix it up so people can live you know safe, clean um and affordable and then partner with our neighborhood um organizations here to get it filled.

SPEAKER_02 28:37

Very nice very nice and so are there any um kind of unique like maybe any new any nuances kind of as you go into this particular deal that that make it um a bit different from your other properties?

SPEAKER_00 28:48

Yeah this is the first time that we have uh made a purchase where um I have to go to code enforcement so uh I would say this is this will be my first um my first journey uh into that right every acquisition there's always something to learn yeah um and this is that so um it will be interesting to to get through that process um and working with the owner right um on that and being a partner in that process so um we'll be going through that for the first time but other than that um not not really it's just planning zoning um but it's like I said it's the perfect um location uh we are finally getting some form of mass transit hopefully here in Columbus soon and this property is right next to it so I see the future of um of where it's going but that's gonna be the only the only challenge that I am learning code enforcement for the first time.

SPEAKER_02 29:52

Gotcha, gotcha well I tell you what that um having mass transit go right by your property can be an absolute game changer. So um that's huge. I mean you you know it's like here here in in the area uh the DMV area if you have uh an extension or something like that an expansion to uh one of the the uh lines here and if you're adjacent to it your values just skyrocket so so get ready we hope so this is you know it's a it's a new first um like I said it's in an a neighborhood that is up and up and coming especially um if this gets approved you know of course the taxpayers have to weigh in but hopefully it gets um approved because again Columbus is growing so fast um and we're a you know a car city and and so we're we're trying to change to accommodate for the growth that's happening in the city. I love it. I love it. You're on the path of path of progress but yeah but I understand kind of the resistance to some of that. So I hope it turns out well. But um okay so what what's what's next for you kind of what what do you see kind of on the horizon for your business?

SPEAKER_00 30:54

Yeah so what is next? That's a great question. I currently right now am focused on two things. I again all this talk about uh HR and training and development it's something I still love to do and I've learned that I don't have to give that up like this is not an either or um so I still love doing um training and development whenever I can um and really working with real estate investors, syndicators um really about business operations in HR, about training training teams, right? Really being able to scale um so that's something that um I'm still working on um always acquiring right and always looking for great people to partner with I think is very important especially when you're talking about syndication and you're talking about larger acquisitions. So I'm always having conversations like that. Again sitting in the back end operations um component of that and also doing a little bit of capital raising mostly with people you know like me former corporate um American uh people working their way up just opening their eyes to letting them know you can actually invest in in real estate with a human and an asset, right? Which was a transition that I had to make you know in terms of you know if you work in corporate you've got that 401k it goes into a mystery place with the mystery person. You don't know who's managing it you don't know what cut they're taking all you're looking at is a paper statement versus you're partnering with me the person the human you know who I am you know you know who Brandon is you can see you can drive by the asset and knock on the door so really just opening um my former peers eyes to what I got my eyes open to and really understanding the difference between being able to build wealth now versus wealth for you know the future.

SPEAKER_02 32:57

Yeah that's awesome awesome awesome I mean I think it's vitally important you know kind of sharing that information and making sure that people understand like hey because it's like you mentioned you don't have to put your money into a black box right you can kind of you can actually go out and and uh always challenge people to say listen I I know mutual funds um and I'm not against them but I understand you know we all invest in mutual funds but try picking up the phone and calling your fund manager you know good luck right mean meanwhile they can pick up the phone and give you a call they can pick up the phone and give me a call so um you know it's and and for some people yeah it takes it takes time I mean you know it to to kind of really understand it but at the very least we are much much closer to um to the asset by far. But no that's just absolutely incredible. So uh once again look I I really really appreciate all your insight I think that um you just have a fascinating journey fascinating um future and for the listeners who want to reach out to you want to hear more about you how can they do so?

SPEAKER_00 33:53

Yeah so um if you want to hear more or or even talk to me more um I run a real estate book club where we talk about uh we just take books like Who Not How and Emyth and um break those down every other week. So I can definitely give you the information for that or you can reach me at Elena at Keysinvestments.com. Like I said if Ohio is always growing we're always looking to have conversations uh with people who are you know in corporate and don't know if they can make the transition and don't know where to start um that I would love to just have a conversation with you and let you know it is possible. No matter what corporate career you're in, whether that be you know HR, training, operations, whatever that is, you can still invest in real estate and be and be an investor and do well.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

Awesome. All right well I will um like put all that in the show notes so that it's accessible to the listeners. And just once again Elena thank you so so much um you know for adding value and uh for being on the show I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 34:55

As always thank you so much for tuning in to the show today brought to you by Bridge Prosper. If you enjoyed today's episode and you'd like to learn more about commercial real estate investing please like subscribe and share and we'll see you again next week I'm Brandon Jenkins and this is the Capital Stack where we help you learn, apply, and prosper