The Capital Stack
The Capital Stack
091. Community Impact Investing with Maria Zondervan
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Connect with the host:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandon-e-jenkins/
Website: https://www.birchprosper.com/
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About the guest:
Maria Zondervan is the Founder of Blue Vikings Capital LLC, a real estate investing firm with a focus on the apartment asset class. She is also a highly accomplished wildlife biologist, entrepreneur, and philanthropist. As a biologist, Maria worked tirelessly to restore critical habitats and protect endangered species. Her investment expertise lies in the purchase of value-add apartments, affordable housing, and long-term holds. Maria founded Valhalla Villas, a non-profit organization, to further assure a secure future for her autistic son and to help others like him. Maria's accomplishments demonstrate that financial gain is not the only measure of success; making a positive impact on the world around us is equally important.
Connect with Maria Zondervan:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maria-zondervan-b5b61544/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mariazondervan/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/maria.zondervan
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1lGslpmC0vtJaFrYzXAWcQ
Website: https://www.bluevikingscapital.com/
Episode Highlights:
✔️ Identifying opportunities during a recession
✔️ Real estate is a team sport
✔️ The power of collective intelligence
✔️ Wealth solutions for special needs parents
✔️ Deal criteria for special needs properties
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What does it mean to be an impact investor? My take on it is when an investor steps up to fill a need that benefits someone other than himself or herself. Too often we focus on how the works of our hands can benefit us without really thinking about how many lives we can positively impact as real estate investors. Our guest for today is Maria Zondervan, founder of Blue Vikings Capital. She's a leader in every sense of the word. With accomplishments ranging from being a celebrated wildlife biologist to an entrepreneur and a philanthropist, Maria has demonstrated that financial gain is not the only measure of success. Making a positive impact on the world around you is equally important.
SPEAKER_01So you don't want to miss this episode where we talk about leveraging collective intelligence to move the needle in your financial life as a real estate investor, all while making a positive impact on your community. So stay tuned.
SPEAKER_00Our monthly meetups offer a space for you to connect with other investors, learn from industry experts, and discover lucrative investment opportunities in large multifamily syndication deals. Whether you're an experienced investor or just starting out, our community welcomes everyone who is interested in growing their wealth through passive investing. Join us at the DMV Apartment Investor Community Meetups and take your first step towards financial freedom today. Visit our website now to learn more and register for our next meetup. We'll see you there.
SPEAKER_02What would you do if you had the freedom to pursue the things you enjoy the most? How incredible would it feel to have the resources to pursue your passions fully and live life on your terms? This is Brandon Jenkins, host of the Capital Stack Podcast and principal of Birch Prosper. You might have heard that 90% of the world's wealthiest people attribute their wealth to real estate investing. Well, guess what? It's true. Investing in real property continues to be the greatest generator of wealth all over the world. So join us each week on the Capital Stack Podcast to hear about how commercial real estate group investment opportunities can help you reach true financial freedom and give you your time back. Hello everyone, what's up, and welcome back to the Capital Stack. Our guest today has a very, very fascinating story because it really underscores the reason why so many of us focus on building wealth, and that is to make an impact. Okay, so our guest today is Maria Zondervan. Maria is a highly accomplished wildlife biologist, a CEO, entrepreneur, and philanthropist. And so through her entrepreneurial and real estate investment projects, she was able to uh continue working on projects that she feels passionate about, such as endangered species protection and habitat restoration, all while working as a biologist in Florida. All right, Maria is uh passionate about financial planning to ensure that the parents of autistic children, I'm sorry, of autistic adults uh can provide a secure future, housing, and independent living services. And this letter to found Valhalla Villas, uh a nonprofit dedicated to that effort. So, Maria, again, uh you know, I love your background, I love your story. Um, I think it's amazing. I'm just very, very happy to have you uh here today. So welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_03Thank you so much. Really appreciate you having me.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely, absolutely. So I'm sure I missed a lot in that intro there. Why don't you kind of fill us in on your journey and uh what got you to this space?
SPEAKER_03Sure, sure. Well, as you mentioned, I started off as a wildlife biologist working primarily to save endangered species in the state of Florida. So if it uh crawls, slithers, or flies in Florida, I've probably worked with it. There's a lot of critters here. Uh it's a critter happy place for sure, for sure. But um I always knew, you know, since I chose that profession, nobody goes to college to become a biologist thinking they're gonna be rich, right? So I always knew that if I want to be able to provide wealth for my family, I'd have to do something else on the side. And so I I've been investing in real estate since I was in college. I actually bought my first property, uh, no money down lease option while I was still in college, house hacked that, rented out to parts of it to other people, right? So I'm sure that's nothing new to your listeners. But um, yeah, so started that kind of early and uh later on got married, and uh my husband kind of got the real estate bug with me. We bought more properties, and then um we used some of those to leverage because banks love lending against um against real estate, right? So we leverage those to buy a couple of businesses. So my husband now runs two massage envy clinics that uh we built from the ground up. So he does that, and I just do the real estate side. But uh I have retired from the biology life um full time, but I still volunteer in those efforts quite a bit because I I can't stay away. Can't stay away from the woods, you know. I gotta go tromping in the woods every now and then.
SPEAKER_02That let like I love that. Um and we'll we'll dig into your background um here, you know. But but again, for me, I just I love that overall that you're able to pursue your your passions and you're using your uh business sense and the results and and um and the income from you know from your business to sort of help you uh focus on your passions. I think that's powerful. Um and so so let's let's kind of start around around the beginning of that um story because I think it's it's important to sort of highlight. So what what drove you to or motivated you to say, you know what, I want to buy my first property when in college? Because not not every people, not everyone does that. I wish I had done that, and I certainly didn't, but but what what triggered that in you even then?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I'm I'm trying to encourage my my kids to do that now as well because they're both at that age as well. It's it's just super important to start early if you can. I I don't think anybody in this business goes, gosh, I wish I would have started later. Um but I mean it was really just a happenstance. I was up late at night studying, and one of those infomercials came on. It was a real estate guru, Carlton Sheets, for those of you who remember back to those days. And um, I thought that's really intriguing. So I actually bought that course, still have it. It's on the bookshelf next to me, as a matter of fact. Um, I keep it as a memoir. It's on cassette tape, so that ages me. I know, I know. Uh but um, you know, a lot of people buy courses. Not everybody goes forth and implements and takes action. Um, but I was always very action-oriented, and I did that, and uh mainly because I wanted to prove to myself like, does this really work? Like this almost sounds too easy. Like you can just buy properties and then other people pay them down via rent. You may make some cash in the middle too, and you get the appreciation. Like it just sounded too good to be true, right? So I had to prove it, and uh it works.
SPEAKER_02It works. I love it, I love it. And also, you know, uh there's so many people who, as you you touched on there briefly, that um don't apply, right? So they go to these things and they'll look around and they'll see that everyone is, you know, maybe excited about it, and they'll look in the back and they'll see that there's a tape, a table with uh tapes and cassettes and material, and they'll say, This is all a scam. And it's like, well, wait a minute, you know, you have you applied any of it? So I think that's that's that's um to me, that's amazing. I think that's what's necessary is you know, step one is getting educated, that so that awareness kind of uh uh increases, and then seeing who was the right potential guide for something like that, and then taking action. I mean, and so you you're a clear example of the results of that. So I think that's very, very powerful. Okay, so um, so you so you go out and you you buy your first property and um and you're able to uh kind of house hack, which I love that term as well. Um, now you mentioned I know this might be a little farther down the line, but you mentioned leveraging it to then buy massage envies, which again is very, very powerful. Can you kind of go into that piece as well? What happened there?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so um my husband had been kind of doing the corporate life, and anybody out there who's doing that knows that that can be really taxing. He was putting in 65-hour weeks, it was crazy. We wanted to start a family and we wanted to both be available for that, right? So he actually left that world and became a school teacher. Special needs um kids is what he was teaching. Um, but although he loved the kids, the school systems here in Florida are just really messed up. It's all I'm gonna say about that. Um, so he wasn't happy there, and he'd always had an entrepreneurial spirit. He he just wanted something else. So um, again, one of those happenstances, I was in a um doctor's office and I saw Entrepreneur Magazine laying there, and they had the ranking of the top 10 new franchises that were up and coming. And I saw Massage M being there, and I was just kind of intrigued, none of us knew anything about that business. But we wrote to them, got some information, and again took action. Like, what's it gonna take to get into one of these? You know, they're expensive to build from the ground up. We didn't have the money, so we're like, well, how much can we scrape together and then how much can we leverage our real estate for without necessarily having to sell it? Um, but it happened to be around 2008, which you may remember the market was coming to uh uh a crest there. So our our properties actually had a lot of value right before they dipped and had no value. So we did actually sell a couple properties right at the height of that bubble. I'd like to say that that's because we're geniuses, but it was just tiny. Um, so we did do that to to get the down payments, and then we leveraged other properties for the big business loan. Again, you know, banks really love lending on real estate, they think it's pretty safe. And so that's um that's how we made that first step into building our first one. Uh so we started a brand new business in the middle of a recession, which I highly recommend. Uh yeah, no, that that that was really scary. But as it turned out, people are really stressed out in recessions. So places like massage um clinics do really well. So I heard massage businesses and like liquor stores didn't do well while everybody else was kind of suffering. So it turned out okay for us. And then uh several years later we bought another location, built another one uh from the ground up.
SPEAKER_02So that's just incredible. It's and so that's that's the other the I guess the third the third time in your your journey that you uh had a sort of a happenstance or you were a coincidental kind of a you know, I think that's I think that's great. I mean it's because in reality, in reality, it's it's uh, you know, we joke about it, but it's it's actually you know having the right mindset, being in the right place at the right time, uh in your development though, because because you know there are a hundred other people who picked up the same magazine and didn't do anything.
SPEAKER_03I mean that's just it. I mean, if you open your mind, you will start seeing possibilities everywhere. Sometimes that's a problem because you know the squirrel thing, you know, shiny objects everywhere. Um, so you have to focus in every now and then. But yes, I mean there's opportunities absolutely everywhere. So it's not just that I happen to be there. I mean, that was the case, but if it wouldn't happen there, something else would have triggered and we would have done something else, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. I mean, and look, and here we are again, right in the time where uh we're arguably in a recession or entering a recession or whatever it is. Um that's right, that's right, that's right. But I I love that um that you mentioned that because I'm thinking back to to COVID. I mean, you know, liquor stores very quickly can kind of set up shop to uh to do either a drive-thru or something where they're handing out in front. So they were um I forgot what the term was during the services that were required. I forgot what what the term oh essential uh essential, yeah. So liquor stores were an essential service.
SPEAKER_03Well, for some it might be, yeah.
SPEAKER_02But um, yeah, no, I think that uh very powerful. So so let me ask you, um okay, so in this is in terms of getting around the people like mentorship coaching, getting to groups that kind of help you frame out the ideas that um you and that ended up coming to fruition through your efforts. Um, did you do any of that?
SPEAKER_03Like did you get around maybe people who oh absolutely okay let's let's let's talk about it. Early on, early on, not so much. I was just doing my own thing, lone wolf. And so those first years were pretty slow. And once I realized that real estate can be a team sport, it all changed. And I wish I would have done that much, much sooner. Um, but you know, started just joining the local RIA, but then quickly progressed into masterminds. So I'm actually a member of three masterminds right now, and I know a lot of people are like, oh gosh, that's that's really expensive and all that kind of stuff. But man, it would cost me way more money not to be in those rooms because that's where it happens. That's really where it happens. Um, I'll give you an example. I was just in Chicago, just came back from a legacy family mastermind summit in Chicago, and I was telling somebody about this issue my son had trying to close his first real estate deal and how it kind of fell apart at the last minute. And instantly there are two people that chimed in with things we could have done that I never thought of ways around this problem. And then somebody else chimed in with a third idea, and it just blew my mind because I here have been in this business a while now, right? So I thought I knew all the ways we could have could have hacked this deal. Um, but there they were. So yeah, the scoops are powerful. You got to get in the rooms, gotta get in the rooms.
SPEAKER_02You got to. I mean, because you're right, that one conversation, you know, and and granted, and and just was sort of you know after the fact, but even when going into a deal, you can have one conversation that can save you literally hundreds of thousands or potentially millions of dollars, you know, and something that if you go it alone, you might overlook. You know, might be something during due diligence that you just don't know to look for. Um, and and and in all your, you know, our searching and and you know, Googling and things like that, you might it might not pop up. But if you're in one of these groups where people who are always closing deals, they're always active, that one conversation they'll say, Oh, hey, don't forget to do this, but you know, so it'll just save you a ton of money. So it just you got to get in those rooms.
SPEAKER_03I like to think of how much money I have left on the table um in years past because I didn't know various strategies. I mean, just uh like a 1031 exchange. There's a time when I didn't know anything about that. So I mentioned we sold some properties to buy businesses, right? We could have done that differently and done an exchange. I took the tax hit on those. And you know, I did that a couple other times before someone goes, Well, how why aren't you exchanging these? I'm like, What's an exchange? I don't know anything about that. So for any listeners who don't know what 1031 exchange is, go Google it right now.
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, very powerful tool for sure, for sure.
SPEAKER_03Just that alone would pay your your membership dues for a year. All the taxes you would have just been handing off to somebody.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Okay, so let and I want to talk a bit about um some of the the efforts that you've done um or that you've started, right? Like the Valhalla Villas. What's I know I kind of touched very briefly on uh the driver behind that, but I just again I love the mission and kind of what what went into that? And um and I'm also curious, was it did you find it challenging to start up a nonprofit kind of amid uh uh amid your other businesses and efforts? Um, but what went into that process?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Valhalla Villas, they have the mission of creating affordable housing, providing affordable housing, I should say, um, for adults with autism. And this came about because my uh oldest son, Carl, he has autism. He's 22 now. And while you're raising an autistic child, you are just like in the moment trying to survive the day, trying to get through our school systems and all that kind of nightmare. And then before you know it, oh my gosh, you're here, you're in adulthood, and now what? So it's kind of a scary realization. And um we made a lot of friends with a lot of parents with special needs kids, um, autism in particular, but other special needs as well. And they all sort of had that same thing as like, oh my gosh, adulthood, now what? Um and they crave all the same independence that um all other kids who get to that stage in their lives do. But 75% of them never leave their parents' house. They live with their parents forever. And it and a lot of them are very close to independence, but they just need that little bit of support, right? So we're like, well, why not create a place that has that support? Because a lot of parents, they worry to death over what happens when I finally do pass away, or when I get too old to care for them, or I get hit by a bus tomorrow. Like that is real, right? And so they need to be in a place that is affordable. We'll look after them, make sure they um can get employment. And a lot of them don't drive. I think it's about 50% or so, maybe not even that high. Um, so they might need transportation services or they need to live very close to employ employment opportunities and grocery stores and that sort of stuff. So I'm like, this this isn't rocket science to put something like this together. So let's go do this. And um, yeah, so that was sort of the emphasis behind it. And since I was already in real estate and in multifamily, I'm like, this kind of pairs together. These aren't two separate things I need to work on and steal my time away from this. Yes, there's lots of effort that's required to start a nonprofit. But once it's going, if you can pair it with your daily business, that that works right. And so in my blue Vikings Capital business, I'm closing multifamily deals, I'm raising capital for deals, that kind of stuff. And uh that actually pairs really well because we're gonna be buying apartment. We've got a couple of apartment complexes we're looking at right now that we want to purchase and integrate these services for autistic adults that want to live there. So it won't be the whole community is is for this. That is a separate project, ground of development. So ask me about that next year.
SPEAKER_02We'll probably have to be back on.
SPEAKER_03But right now it's it's uh the faster path is to buy an existing apartment complex. And then as regular residents uh move out, make those available to people on the spectrum, autism spectrum. And uh so our goal is to bring about 25% of the tenant base to that um to be able to have those. So the Valhalla villas will provide the services and blue vikings, my regular business kind of provides the housing. And we just kind of marry the two.
SPEAKER_02Very nice, very nice. Again, I just think it's a powerful mission. And I love the the names there, seeing a seeing a common theme on those names.
SPEAKER_03That's from my Swedish background. Yeah, Viking blood running through my veins.
SPEAKER_02Very good, very good. So, well, so let's actually, it's a good segue. Then let's let's maybe talk about um Blue Vikings uh capital a bit. Kind of what's what's the focus of of your firm and um the types of projects that that you uh pursue?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's all um multifamily syndications for the most part. And um again, it has an avenue over towards the the um special needs side a little bit because um as I was getting into multifamily, you know, people are seeing how much time I was spending venting vetting deals and underwriting deals. I probably look at at least a hundred before they even make it to the top. Something makes it to the top of the deck where I really do a deep dive on it. And uh, and then I decide where to invest my money or what properties to go after to acquire. And I'd start getting friends and family going, well, you've done all this work. We're looking to invest. Can we just invest alongside you? So that kind of became a natural progression. But a lot of special needs families are like, you know, we want to set something up for our kids long term because again, thinking about what happens when something happens to me, are they gonna be able to be financially independent? We know government services are super lacking when it comes to supporting special needs people or people with disabilities. I mean, they can barely scrape by on beans and rice type of stuff, right? So you want to want better for your kids. So help them get into long-term uh to investments to help grow that wealth and help them set up things like special needs trusts, enable accounts for their special needs kids. So kind of married all together. And then with the apartment complexes that we're gonna be buying um for the purpose of the um housing for autistic adults, we're gonna have those as long-term or forever holds, really. They'll never be sold. Um, we don't want to say, oh, we finally found a place where it has all the services in them. Yeah, now we're gonna sell it. So we'll just re fine and get our investors their money back, but they can hold it in cash flow forever. So it's kind of the perfect thing to pass down to um your next generation, whether that's special needs or not. But particularly for the special needs, it's it's great because they'll never have to worry about reinvesting or moving that money and having the knowledge space to do that.
SPEAKER_02That that's that's awesome. And so I like that you're providing then a very specific solution um, you know, to a group who who might otherwise not have the time to go out and and and sort of curate these kinds of deals themselves because they're like you mentioned earlier, you know, you kind of have to focus on taking care of um, you know, your child that has special needs. And so by then saying, hey, listen, Maria, you know what you're doing, you know, uh, you know, I'll put place capital with with you because I know you have the track record and the experience to get it done. So I can focus on other things. I think that's um, I think that's incredible. And so um on the topic of kind of having this be a forever hold uh model. And on um, I think you mentioned earlier that it would need to be located uh in an employment center or at least near an employment center. What other criteria do you have to consider um in terms of location for these?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So the properties we're looking at are within a mile's walking distance to a grocery store and a major grocery store, not some some little Grocery store, right? And usually that also ties in with a good shopping center that would have good employment opportunities. Safety is a concern. So we're looking at gated communities. So for the most part, we're looking at class A assets, nice things where you'd want your child to live and would feel safe with them being. So those are some of the concerns or some of the things we look for. We don't want to do all like one bedroom type of situations because one of their issues is loneliness. They get really lonely, they have a hard time making friends. So we want to have a roommate matching service. So we're looking for complexes that have a lot of two and three bedroom units. We would even do four units, but that's hard to find, right? Or not units, but bedrooms per unit. Um so we're looking for some of those and amenities. We're gonna have lots of social interaction that's so important. So it'll be weekly social programs. And when you're doing job counseling and other services that they need, you need someplace to hold that. So you need a meeting facility on the site as well. So those are a few of the things that we look for. And then of course it still needs to cash flow and make money for our investors.
SPEAKER_02So absolutely. That is just incredible, incredible.
SPEAKER_03Sutting the needle, but um, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, well, I mean, uh, like I said, you know, to me, I think it's it there's a huge need for it. Um, and to my knowledge, there's not, I think you said around 25% of the units are you plan to allocate toward that. And to my knowledge, there's nothing that um that kind of is like a really class A, really well located that had that checks all the boxes that's being offered out there. And so I think to have that as a solution is very powerful. Um, so I just think that's outstanding.
SPEAKER_03Well, and with the roommate thing, you can also make it more affordable. And the other checkpoint is um we're trying to partner with like University of Central Florida, who has a strong special needs program, and do um something that we're kind of copying from the University of Miami where they have a best buddies program where a neurotypical student at the university will cohabitate with some special needs individuals to kind of help them through getting, you know, getting used to living on your own kind of thing. So just extra eyes, an extra buddy, you know, again helps with the social aspect as well, but probably makes parents feel a little safer just knowing somebody else is is there with them as well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely. I love it. Um, so uh one thing that uh I always share on the show that my uh by trade, I'm a petroleum engineer, but what people don't uh don't know is that I I'd always wanted to be a zoologist. And so when I yeah, when I was when I was young, I always did. Um, and you know, kicking myself for not pursuing that.
SPEAKER_03Never too late.
SPEAKER_02Never too late. That's right. I love it. Um, I'm curious about some of the projects that you're working on in terms of um like you know, habitat restoration and and protection of endangered species, because I think that's really fascinating. What are some of the things that you're that you've worked on that you're working on now that are interesting?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I so I guess the one project that I'm probably the proudest of, and and this is a critter most people probably never even heard of, but it's called the Red Cockade Woodpecker. It's a small, tiny little woodpecker found in longleaf uh pine forests. And uh there's less than 3% of the original range of longleaf pine left. And so with the pine went the woodpecker that was very uh dependent on this thing. But we have found ways to make artificial homes for them in pine trees that weren't old enough for them normally to use for habitat. We've done translocation to help with genetics and to revamp uh smaller populations that were dying out, and it's been a very successful project. I've worked on that for gosh 26 years or something. But we have brought back multiple populations from the brink of extinction, and uh that bird has now been uh taken off the endangered species list. It's been delisted or downlisted, so that's super exciting. And I I know, like, oh, it's not tigers and bears, but it's no, that's exciting. You have to scale a lot of trees up there, you know, do some fine carpentry with a chainsaw strapped to a tree. You know, it's it's not quite as boring as it might sound. We're not just out there uh listening to the birds in the woods.
SPEAKER_02Well, that's not that sounds funny, and it's good that you're able to you to do that. I think that's just awesome. What's now silly question? What's so what's what's next up from endangered?
SPEAKER_03I'm not even sure what the what endangered is the most critical level, threatened is below that. So that's when you're um there's a threat of becoming endangered. And if you go beyond endangered, you're extinct. So there's you don't want to go there.
SPEAKER_02No, no, but yeah, that's what I meant. Like, what was the so so you so you they're from you they went they were endangered, now they're are they now threatened or are they?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so they went to threaten on the state level and um all the way removed on the federal level.
SPEAKER_02So good stuff. Um no, sorry, I just had to no, it's great, it's great. I think it's good.
SPEAKER_03So I did some zoology too. I actually worked with tigers and leopards and lions and bears and line, all of that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Good stuff. Um so uh okay, so what's what's kind of next um for for you? Um, like what things are you working on now that um you know that will sort of help take you to the next uh your next goal?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so the next goal is to to buy a really large apartment complex to implement this on. Um we had originally said we were gonna start small, and I've just decided everything is just easier when it's bigger. Uh it's hard to on the capital raise front, but other than that, uh the numbers just work easier when you have bigger scale. And uh, I just decided I gotta stop being scared of commas and um go for go for big because we can make the biggest impact there. One in 44 individuals in the United States now, one in 44 kids born here now has autism. So I mean that's that's a crazy number. I don't know if people can wrap their brains around that, but that's a lot of people that are gonna need housing. So can't go small, going big.
SPEAKER_02Good. I love it. Go big. I love it. Well, um, listen, Marie, I mean, this has been just incredible. Um, and so we're kind of getting uh close to close. So I did want to ask you uh for someone who who's listening to this and they've heard your story, your journey, your mission, and they're inspired. Um, what what would you share with them to quite to sort of help them get started today? Something they can take action on as an investor.
SPEAKER_03As an investor, um, bluevikingscapital.com. I have tons of resources, whether that's special needs or not. Um, so I would suggest going there and checking out what we've got going on and um start reading and listening to podcasts if you're not already doing that. There's some great books out there. I really love vivid vision, as you can tell. You know, I've got that vision of where I'm going. So that's that's one if you haven't read, I really recommend. And uh, you know, podcasts like yours are are wonderful for getting a feel for what your passion might be. And uh, as you mentioned, some people they go to these um events or they look at those cassette tapes and uh they think it's a scam or whatever. Well, or some go to it and know it's real, it's just they realize it's also a lot of work, which it is. Um, it's not quite as passive as people sometimes make you think, but there is passive investment option. If that is the right path for you, there's nothing wrong with that. When um I switched from single family homes to multifamily and did a deep dive into what I was making on my single family homes, I was astounded at how poor my return was compared to the multifamily, even on the passive level.
SPEAKER_04Yep.
SPEAKER_03You know, passively, I think at the minimum, I was like in 12%, a lot of times 14, 16%, even 18%. My single family homes weren't touching that. If you looked at the equity you actually had sitting in those homes. So you got to look at your equity return on investment. And it was not there. So you don't have to be killing it, flipping houses and wholesaling and all this kind of stuff to make really great returns if that's not the path for you. And if it is, go do it. Great, find your passion.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. I love it. Well, thank you. Thank you so much. I think that's uh great advice. Um, great tip. Reach out and get that information. Okay, so um, where where else can the listeners sort of get in touch with you, hear more about you?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's the best place. So I've also got a YouTube channel. You can just Google my name or Google Blue Vikings Capital if you can't spell Zondervan, which I don't blame you for. Blue Vikings Capital is probably easier. But yeah, I've got YouTube channels, I'm all over social media, so you can certainly find me there. And I do have a guide um for your first-time investors as well as one for people who have been investing for a while for the five key things that you want to look for in your next or your first investment. So that's available for free download on my website.
SPEAKER_02All right, awesome, awesome. So we'll include all that in the show notes um for the listeners to go and get and to um to follow up with you if if need be. And so again, just really, really appreciate all your insight, your perspective, and just for sharing your journey uh with us today, Maria. So thank you so much for your time.
SPEAKER_03Thanks so much for having me.
SPEAKER_02As always, thank you so much for tuning in to the show today, brought to you by Bridge Prosper. If you enjoyed today's episode and you'd like to learn more about commercial real estate investing, please like, subscribe, and share. And we'll see you again next week. I'm Brandon Jenkins, and this is the Capital Stack, where we help you learn, apply, and prosper.
